1 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,520 2 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,560 I knew it was good. I think we all knew it was good. 3 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,280 But it was only when we started getting hits, 4 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:44,160 which is a rare thing in my life, that you start thinking, 5 00:00:44,160 --> 00:00:47,480 "Oh, maybe we're going to sell something here". 6 00:00:47,480 --> 00:00:50,080 Peter Gabriel was the classic definition 7 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,000 of a cult artist, before So. 8 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,840 He was well known, he was well respected, 9 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:00,760 but he was not in that league where we talk about the Beatles, 10 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:04,400 the Stones, Bob Dylan, Fleetwood Mac. 11 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,680 But So changed that in an enormous way. 12 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:09,960 MUSIC: "Slegehammer" by Peter Gabriel 13 00:01:09,960 --> 00:01:13,400 14 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:18,480 15 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:22,080 I guess it was May '85. 16 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,520 Came over from New York. We got picked up at Heathrow 17 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,120 by David Stallbaumer, who was Peter's assistant. 18 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:31,640 Driving down the motorway, he had asked me, how long did Peter and Dan 19 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:34,640 indicate I was going to be at Ashcombe House for? 20 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,880 I said, "Anywhere from two weeks to six weeks". 21 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:40,480 He kind of mused for a moment, and then he looked over to me 22 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:42,880 and said, "You're going to be here until next March," 23 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,840 That was ten months later, and he was spot on. 24 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:50,680 It took us a year to finish So, almost to the day, 25 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,600 and I wasn't aware of this, but I was told after the fact 26 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:57,160 - that that's the fastest record that Peter ever made. - HE LAUGHS 27 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:03,760 28 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:09,600 29 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:15,240 I knew that he was a person who thought about music 30 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:19,240 in a different way. How can music enter the culture in a different way, 31 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:23,760 other than just records, product, songs? You buy them, take them home. 32 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:25,960 But how else could you experience music? 33 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:29,520 Could all of those things meld at one moment in time 34 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:35,480 to make a record that could, not necessarily fit into the masses, 35 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:38,640 but actually find a way for the mass to come to him? 36 00:02:38,640 --> 00:02:41,240 I shook hands with Peter, I said, "Listen, 37 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,320 "I think this could be really great for you, and let's not let up 38 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:47,960 "until we're satisfied that it could touch a lot of hearts". 39 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:50,440 MUSIC: "Don't Give Up" by Peter Gabriel and Kate Bush 40 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:52,520 41 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:54,880 42 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,000 43 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:05,200 44 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,560 I think the songs were just like amazing and great songs, 45 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,040 a great producer. Just, you know, magical. 46 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:14,520 MUSIC: "That Voice Again" by Peter Gabriel 47 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,200 48 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:20,600 49 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:26,680 Imagine if somebody drops off a big lump of granite on your front lawn, 50 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:28,880 and it's your job to make a sculpture, 51 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:32,040 a nice skinny sculpture, out of it by spring. 52 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:33,800 That was kind of our job. 53 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,360 I think that one of the reasons I've been able to have a career 54 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:39,480 over all this time, 55 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:44,840 is that I've followed my heart, and my nose, you know? 56 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,880 You sniff around, and you find something interesting, 57 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,120 and you chase it. 58 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:52,640 And that is what makes life interesting. 59 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:56,280 MUSIC: "Red Rain" by Peter Gabriel 60 00:03:56,280 --> 00:04:00,240 I had had a dream that was a bit like the parting of the Red Sea, 61 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:04,760 with these two walls, and these glass bottles 62 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:10,080 that would fill up with blood, 63 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,520 that would enable them to walk to the other side, 64 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:16,440 screw onto the other wall, and empty the blood out. 65 00:04:18,280 --> 00:04:22,280 That was, I guess, a little version of life and death. 66 00:04:22,280 --> 00:04:28,080 There is a sense of danger, loss, 67 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,360 this notion of "red rain". 68 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,280 It's not specifically blood, but it's hard not to think of that 69 00:04:33,280 --> 00:04:36,880 as an image of blood, of people drowning, people helpless. 70 00:04:38,280 --> 00:04:42,640 71 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,720 72 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:50,320 73 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:54,440 74 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,640 I'd always wanted it to crash open at the front. 75 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,400 And for it to feel really driven. 76 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:09,360 77 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:13,280 78 00:05:13,280 --> 00:05:18,960 I spent a lot of time, and Dan too, on trying to get the sequence right. 79 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:22,320 And what we used to do was put the beginnings and endings 80 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,600 of all the songs on little cassettes, 81 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,240 so you can try all the different permutations. 82 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:33,720 83 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:37,480 I think with Red Rain, fairly early on, 84 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:38,960 that was going to be an opener. 85 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,760 We put a lot of work into those drums. 86 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:45,360 This was before digital technology. 87 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:52,600 Jerry Marotta must have played the drums like, 88 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:54,240 I think, about eight takes. 89 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:58,680 The idea was always to try to do something different, 90 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:03,320 be a little unconventional, or a lot unconventional. 91 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:05,000 I love that about Peter. 92 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,120 He's a really a master of low end. 93 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:11,720 He can really shape the bottom of a song the way no one else can. 94 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:15,160 And then it was my job, after Jerry left, to go through everything, 95 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:20,200 and make sure that I had included Jerry's best playing, bar at a time. 96 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,480 It's getting in there and trying things, 97 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:26,120 and trying things in a little different way. Being unusual. 98 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:28,120 But I think it was worth it. 99 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,840 You hear all the idiosyncratic details of Jerry's performance. 100 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:34,640 It's got a lot of power. 101 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,760 Got a very deep, philosophical thing. 102 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:40,480 And, performance-wise, 103 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:44,320 it wasn't like the pop songs. 104 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,520 It was much darker. 105 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:52,320 106 00:06:55,560 --> 00:07:01,080 107 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:02,720 As the ex-drummer that I am, 108 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,840 I have to get the drums right, before anything else can happen. 109 00:07:05,840 --> 00:07:09,120 Remember, one of his big influences as a kid was Otis Redding, 110 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:13,200 and he was a drummer, before he was a singer. 111 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:18,360 The past records, as Jerry Marotta will remind us all of, 112 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:20,880 were not allowed to have any cymbals. 113 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:22,360 No cymbals, and no hi-hat. 114 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,240 Because Peter didn't want a whole bunch of "pshhhh" 115 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:30,760 splashing around, noisy things, to take up any room in the mix. 116 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,640 One of the worst things you can ever do to an artist 117 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:35,520 is give them complete freedom. 118 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:37,680 Cos they just sit there, thinking, 119 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:41,760 "What the hell am I going to do?" 120 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,800 But I think creative people are devious, 121 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:49,400 and if you tell them what they can't do, they'll find a way round it. 122 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:55,480 So I thought, "OK, I know I'm devious, too, 123 00:07:55,480 --> 00:08:01,160 "so I'll create my own set of rules, of things that I can or can't do. 124 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:07,400 "And that'll force me to think of alternatives". So, no cymbals. 125 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:10,040 I love hi-hat, and I said to Peter, 126 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,520 "Let's make this record a nice hi-hat record, why not?" 127 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:17,240 He's fascinating, Dan, cos he's a mixture of, 128 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:22,120 I think, quite a rough and tough dad on the one hand, 129 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:27,080 and a very soft and tender mum. 130 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,480 He can be both things. 131 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:34,440 And he decided to follow my instinct, 132 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,760 and so we allowed cymbals and hi-hats into the project. 133 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,080 That was quite a change for him. 134 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:45,160 One of the things that I asked Stewart Copeland to do, 135 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:51,200 cos he's a virtuoso hi-hat player, was focus in on the hi-hat. 136 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:52,680 DRUM MACHINE PLAYS 137 00:08:52,680 --> 00:08:56,120 So this is where we started, with the hi-hat on the drum program. 138 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:59,880 It does a job, it motors along, but doesn't have any personality. 139 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:03,200 So, here's Stewart. 140 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,640 HI-HATS PLAY 141 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:13,520 Of what we put on the record, I'd say Red Rain 142 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,480 probably took the most out of me. 143 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,400 It was a very flat... 144 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:25,200 And it was my job to make it so that it evolved, 145 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,720 sonically and emotionally. 146 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,160 147 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,560 148 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,480 149 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:51,480 150 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:55,200 I wanted his emotions to come to the forefront. 151 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:59,600 To wear no mask and no veil, and to have no mirrored 152 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:04,240 contact lenses, and no trickery. 153 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:08,960 And just take everything off, and let the songs be heard. 154 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:11,800 And I think that was a good call. 155 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:16,120 I think it was sort of a nice segue into the next chapter, for Peter. 156 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,280 So, consequently, I think these songs are more revealing, 157 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:22,760 they're more naked, they're taking risks 158 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:27,240 and listeners feel that, when a man takes a risk. 159 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:36,000 I've always been slow, so I worked out early on, 160 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,280 that it was going to be a lot cheaper 161 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:40,280 if tried to buy the equipment, 162 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:44,640 and set up a little studio, rather than rent a studio. 163 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,560 I was looking, basically, for a place that I could afford, 164 00:10:47,560 --> 00:10:49,960 so we rented this old farmhouse. 165 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,720 And we started putting some equipment in there. 166 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,960 But it was away from everything. 167 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,320 The cows would come and lick the windows occasionally, 168 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,000 and I loved it. 169 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,000 I first got an invitation to work with Peter Gabriel 170 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,960 when I was living in Hamilton, in Ontario, in Canada. 171 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,600 That's near Toronto. 172 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,920 And there was an invitation to come in and help him 173 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:19,320 with a soundtrack for a film called Birdy. 174 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,720 I jumped on the plane the next day, and we carried on with that work, 175 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,840 and Peter gave me access to his entire library. 176 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:28,920 He says, "Whatever you find in here, do what you like with it. 177 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,960 "What I expect in the end is some nice surprises". 178 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,680 I knew I didn't have time to generate a whole new score, 179 00:11:34,680 --> 00:11:38,360 so I wanted to use part of the score, 180 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:43,400 using existing material, and remixes, 181 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:47,520 and extrapolate mood from some of the ready-made material. 182 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:51,480 And I did provide him a lot of surprises, sonic surprises, 183 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:56,320 and he invited me to stay on to work on his new singing record, 184 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,640 which was to become So. 185 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:03,000 You saw the two together. They still had hair. 186 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:04,360 HE LAUGHS 187 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:08,600 And the two together, they were one. 188 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:12,200 When I first met Daniel, I remember now, at the studio, I looked at him, 189 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,960 and he was the perfect complement to Peter. 190 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:16,280 He understood Peter. 191 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,600 I walked down the lane with my bag. 192 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,240 Peter came out of Ashcombe House. 193 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:26,160 Something jumped on me. 194 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,160 I felt that I had known him before. 195 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:32,800 I just felt something genetically connected with him, 196 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:34,840 if not by birth. 197 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,560 And, I knew right at that moment, that I should work with him. 198 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:44,720 Ashcombe was made of two main buildings, the house, 199 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:48,760 the beautiful garden, and then the cow barn. 200 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:52,360 I think it had been used as a functioning cow barn. 201 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:53,920 I don't know how long back. 202 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,480 Cows were still around in the fields. 203 00:12:57,480 --> 00:12:59,760 It felt and behaved like a proper studio, 204 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,320 but it was all done very inexpensively. 205 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:05,400 Peter walked in and said, "Great, let's get started. 206 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,760 "We're going to start making a record." 207 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:12,600 And that was the initial birth process for So. 208 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:15,560 We were both surrounded by a brand new studio, 209 00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:18,840 with a bunch of equipment neither of us knew really how to operate. 210 00:13:21,560 --> 00:13:25,640 They turned the barn into a studio. It was perfect for Peter. 211 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:29,400 It was great, cos it was kinda like that thing where 212 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,080 we're in, at home, we're in our own environment, you know? 213 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,480 So, that was it. He'd go in the back to work on lyrics, 214 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,360 and pop the tracks, and sing out loud, 215 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,840 while I worked in the smaller room in the front, tidying things up, 216 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:46,000 and getting the room ready for the next level of work. 217 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:50,360 We had a good work ethic, 218 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:52,960 and we treated it like a construction site. 219 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,560 In fact, we even had the construction site hard hats. 220 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,960 We just had a policy where we put on the hard hat before starting work. 221 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:05,640 I listened to his solo records, and I liked them. 222 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:09,000 I thought that he had been very adventurous and brave 223 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:13,640 with his sonics, and with his songs. 224 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:18,040 All four records before that were titled Peter Gabriel. 225 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:22,400 I used to remember all the different albums, not from titles, 226 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:26,360 but from the pictures, from the artwork. 227 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:30,040 Then you had a big vinyl artwork. 228 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:34,720 There was a whole ritual to getting an album. Opening it, smelling it. 229 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:36,080 And I also thought that, 230 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,920 when you had good artwork, why did you have to have 231 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:40,840 all this text all over the top of it, 232 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,520 making it look like a piece of advertising? 233 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,960 You go from the first record, 234 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:49,560 with Here Comes the Flood, Solsbury Hill. 235 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:53,480 The second album, which is more eccentric and darker, 236 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:55,760 produced by Robert Fripp. 237 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:57,200 Games Without Frontiers. 238 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,480 239 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:16,600 240 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,520 241 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:22,040 242 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:24,280 243 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:26,680 244 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,920 That's when you have Biko. 245 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:34,960 You get this sense that he's working his way forward. 246 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:39,200 By calling each record "Peter Gabriel", the point was, 247 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:43,720 "These are not separate, discrete statements. 248 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:48,720 "This is part of my continuing body of work". 249 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:52,640 It was sort of culty, and occasional flashes. 250 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:57,840 so Games Without Frontiers, Shock The Monkey, Solsbury Hill, 251 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:02,240 had sort of broken through to a wider audience. 252 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:05,200 253 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:09,240 254 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,120 255 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,400 256 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:20,080 257 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,400 258 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:26,480 259 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:28,840 260 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,560 261 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,560 And then, I sort of retreat 262 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,200 back into the bushes 263 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,480 with my normal crowd. 264 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:45,080 So, there's occasional moments in the daylight. 265 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,520 Those songs had been said already, 266 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,080 and we're entering a new body of work. 267 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:53,080 268 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,720 269 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:01,720 Sledgehammer, actually, 270 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:06,200 that crashed the door down for such a wide audience, 271 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,880 that everything else that was on the record that was important, 272 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:13,000 that was convincing, that was committed, 273 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,120 that all came through as well. 274 00:17:16,120 --> 00:17:18,760 275 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,640 276 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:29,320 277 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,520 I remember that Sledgehammer, we did very last. 278 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:34,200 In fact, we were packing up. 279 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,040 Peter, in typical Peter fashion, said, 280 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,880 "I have this idea, for the next album, of a piece. 281 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,560 "Would you mind just doing a run through of it?" 282 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:46,160 One of the many things I love about Peter is, 283 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,480 in his mind, he's only a couple of months away 284 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:50,400 from doing his next album, 285 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,080 even when he's finishing an album, and the rest of us know 286 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,520 we're going to have to wait years, maybe even for this one to come out. 287 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,520 So we just reassembled the stuff, 288 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:03,360 and did a quick version or two of Sledgehammer, 289 00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:07,200 and then we went home thinking, "No-one will ever hear that track". 290 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:08,960 Everyone thinks, "Oh, Sledgehammer, 291 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,640 "you must have been trying to write a hit". 292 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:14,720 It wasn't like that. 293 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,360 I loved RandB, soul music. 294 00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:23,960 So, in a way, this was a little bit of homage to that. 295 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:28,080 I had made these jazz records, jazz fusion, 296 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:33,840 which was totally not Peter's bag, but I had also recorded a song 297 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:37,520 as a tribute to the island where I was born. 298 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,640 In that piece of music, there was a drummer, 299 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:43,840 which was Manu Katche. 300 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:48,000 I got a phone call in my room so of course I answered the phone, 301 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,880 and someone on the phone says, "Hello, is this Manu here? 302 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,200 "It's Peter Gabriel". I said, "Yeah, OK." 303 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,240 I thought it was my friend, doing a joke. 304 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,320 Peter was calling him. He was not returning Peter's calls. 305 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,120 Five minutes later, the phone rings again. 306 00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:05,120 "Hello?" "Manu, this is Peter Gabriel". 307 00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:06,800 I said, "Camille, OK, stop it!" 308 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,720 Peter called me in New York, and said, "I don't know what's 309 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,640 going on with this drummer. He's not returning the calls". 310 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,880 So, I remember, I called him with Peter on the line, 311 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,960 and I said to Manu, "Manu, what's going on?" 312 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:23,080 And he said, "I would love to have you on my next project". 313 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:26,240 So I said to George, "Are you sure this guy can shuffle? 314 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:29,160 "We have to have a man who understands the shuffle. 315 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:33,760 "It's not enough to just go 'boo-boo-de-boo-boo-de' anymore. 316 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,680 "We want the 'do-do-do-ch-do-do-do-do', 317 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:38,560 "some kind of motion to it. 318 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:40,240 "Will Manu be able to do that?" 319 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:44,520 And he said, "Well, he's the best in Paris. Trust me, I think you'll love him". 320 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:49,160 Somebody like Manu coming to the table was so unlike anything 321 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:53,800 that had yet happened in the entire recording process. 322 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,920 Because, he's a straight session guy. 323 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,560 There's a big garden in front me, 324 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,240 and we just go out for a little bit of time, then having your tea 325 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:08,000 in the kitchen, then coming back. Has nothing to do like you being 326 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,320 in a professional studio, where you have to sign in when you get in, 327 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,400 and sign out when you leave the place. 328 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,360 And then there are two or three studios 329 00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:17,600 when people are working on different projects. 330 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,720 So the feeling was very, very different, 331 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,000 plus it's in the countryside, in the middle of the countryside, 332 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,840 which means there's nothing around of, like, in a city. 333 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,560 Sat down, listened to the track once, maybe twice, 334 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,120 with Peter in the control room. Not even in the room with him. 335 00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:37,720 Just said, "OK, play what you think, play what you think". 336 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:39,280 Manu did one take. 337 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,960 And I go back into the studio. We listened to it, 338 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,640 and I see Peter moving, and really having this great 339 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,440 and nice smile on his face. 340 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,120 And I said, "You like it?" He said, "Yeah". 341 00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:53,000 And Peter said, "Great, let's do it again". 342 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,360 And Manu's response was, 343 00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:58,080 "Why? I've already done it." 344 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,040 Peter always likes another take, or a third take or a tenth take, 345 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:02,680 just to cover himself. 346 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:07,120 There's an American producer, I think it's Jerry Wexler. 347 00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:10,320 No, it wasn't, Arif Mardin. 348 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,200 And one of his quotes was, 349 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,760 "Fabulous, fabulous, fabulous. Now, do it again." 350 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,280 He was used to just doing things hundreds and hundreds, 351 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:20,880 and hundreds of times. 352 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:25,160 And Manu's point was, "I've all ready interpreted this as best I can." 353 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:26,760 And as soon as I heard that track, 354 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:30,120 I had the idea of what I wanted to play, instantly. 355 00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:32,640 Remember, the groove on the bass was, like, phenomenal. 356 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:36,200 Manu was following where the music seemed to be taking us. 357 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:39,400 And Manu was very good at just following that direction, 358 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:43,320 but doing it with his own style, so it always sounds like him. 359 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:44,920 And that's what I try to do on bass. 360 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,240 361 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,160 362 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,040 363 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,880 364 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:57,600 365 00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,760 366 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:01,520 Sledgehammer is part of that 367 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:05,920 classical rhythm and blues soul that people understand instantly, 368 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,840 so, once again, 369 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:11,960 I would love to think 370 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,120 it's because when we recorded it, 371 00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:16,040 we recorded it with heart and soul. 372 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:17,480 DRUMS PLAY 373 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:19,440 The drums have that thing I was talking about, 374 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,080 a lovely kind of swing to them. 375 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,880 And then, if we put in Tony's bass... 376 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,080 BASS PLAYS 377 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:31,800 And I chose fretless bass. 378 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:33,560 PLAYS BASS 379 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,880 I put an octave on it, and a little unusual to use a pick. 380 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,440 And I thought we came up with a good sound. 381 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,720 PLAYS BASSLINE 382 00:22:57,360 --> 00:23:01,200 When I heard the track, it was about 50 or 60% completed, 383 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,280 but there were no lyrics on it whatsoever, 384 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,760 so the bed track was then drums, bass, guitars. 385 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:10,440 It had some keyboards on it, but it didn't have all the keyboards on it. 386 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,080 No vocals, whatsoever. 387 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,400 No background vocals, no lead vocal. 388 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,160 Dan kept mentioning, "It would be great to have horns on this," 389 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:20,520 cos it had a soul feel. 390 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,400 So, we went to the Power Station, in New York, 391 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,360 and had a couple of fellas come up from Memphis. 392 00:23:26,360 --> 00:23:30,040 I was going up to play with some strange people, 393 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,520 and I didn't know how it worked. But I'm good with folks. 394 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,800 I'm good with strangers, so I figured I could make it work, and I did. 395 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,600 Wayne Jackson, 396 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:42,800 with the Memphis Horns, 397 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:48,160 was playing at the gig in Brixton when I saw Otis, in 1967. 398 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:53,200 So, it was a great thing for me to be able to work with them, 399 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:54,880 and work with him, 400 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:59,760 and hear a lot of the stories first-hand about Otis. 401 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:01,600 The song had a sense of humour to it, 402 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,120 and they felt the horns would highlight that humour. 403 00:24:04,120 --> 00:24:06,480 HORNS PLAY 404 00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:17,400 There they are. 405 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,600 I liked the song, and I love the track. It felt good. 406 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,800 That's all. RandB feels good. And this felt good, too. 407 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:30,000 And I could see why he wanted something original sounding, 408 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:34,680 to lean his music more towards soul than, than pop. 409 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:37,960 And I gave him that. 410 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,080 When they came back, after being here for a week, 411 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,160 and I heard them for the first time, it was just a big smile on my face, 412 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,240 cos it helped pull the whole track together. 413 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,240 We were all very happy. 414 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,200 Daniel and Peter just jumped up 415 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,520 and ran around the studio, just jumping up. 416 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:56,120 Just like fairies. "Yay!" 417 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,080 They were so happy with the way it was coming off. 418 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:04,680 The thing about Sledgehammer is that it had that video, 419 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,520 and the video had such a charm, such a sense of humour, 420 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,000 which was something that people didn't realise about him. 421 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,800 422 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,560 423 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,720 424 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,080 425 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,960 426 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:39,040 I'd taken a risk, and spent quite a lot of money on this video, 427 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,280 which was really unusual at the time. 428 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:45,400 People hadn't really done something like that. 429 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,000 430 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:55,560 I was introduced to this wonderful director, Stephen R Johnson, 431 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,200 and he introduced me to the Quay Brothers, 432 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,920 and I introduced him to Aardman Animation, 433 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,600 all of whom worked together. 434 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,160 In those days, you more or less had to do it all in camera. 435 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,760 In other words, what you shot was what you got. 436 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:10,200 You couldn't layer stuff in. 437 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,440 So, basically, you were shooting everything, 438 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,400 frame by frame, in camera. 439 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,680 So, Peter Gabriel sitting in a chair. 440 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,720 We made a rig, we have bumper cars, 441 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:23,120 and they are simply model cars, which are animated frame by frame, 442 00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:26,440 and he would be directed to enunciate the part of the word 443 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:27,720 he's meant to be singing. 444 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,080 You would direct his eyes to look right or look left, 445 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,560 on a frame by frame basis. 446 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,080 You were using Peter Gabriel effectively as an animated model. 447 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,680 448 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:44,000 Two weeks of sort of creative work, and a very slow and painful 449 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:48,680 process, filming in old-style animation so, as clouds moved 450 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,720 across my face they had, actually had to be painted, frame by frame. 451 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:58,320 And then Nick Park was asked to animate these chickens. 452 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,360 They'd already been out of the fridge for quite a while, 453 00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:02,960 while they had wire put in them. 454 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,240 Then they were underneath the studio lights, 455 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,320 and Nick is to be seen wearing protective clothing, 456 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,480 rubber gloves and a mask, and stuff like that, 457 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,720 because he was rightly anxious about salmonella. 458 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:31,720 After the Sledgehammer video was popular in America, I noticed, 459 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,200 and had to laugh, that there were more women in the audience. 460 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,480 Exactly, there were women in the audience, 461 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,640 which, for the musicians, was a wonderful thing. 462 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,360 HE LAUGHS 463 00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:45,760 So that was a change that changed for good, 464 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,680 and we all kind of smiled about it on stage, and took it for what it was. 465 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,640 That was one change, after So. 466 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,280 Song about a man and a woman 467 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,080 faced with a problem of losing a job. 468 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,640 It's called Don't Give Up. 469 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:03,920 APPLAUSE 470 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,840 BASS PLAYS 471 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,960 Don't Give Up started out as a rhythm box pattern 472 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:22,240 that Peter had been fiddling around with on his Linn drum. 473 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:26,960 Then little tuned tom-toms, and I always liked something about it. 474 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,880 And so this entire song was built around that little tom-tom pattern. 475 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:39,680 And I'd pitched the um, toms quite deliberately 476 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:45,080 and then I asked Tony if he could build on that. 477 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:49,080 And when Tony Levin came in he mimicked the phrasing 478 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,640 of the tom-tom pattern the best he could 479 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,520 and he invented this beautiful part that floats on top. 480 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,640 And I thought that'd be a good bass part if I put notes to it. 481 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:00,720 So I started. 482 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,960 Then I added harmony. 483 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:12,760 Little beat box part here. 484 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,520 SLOW BEATS AND GUITAR 485 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,080 It's quite Jamaican, isn't it? 486 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:29,000 Then we can put some keys in for the chords. 487 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:35,640 488 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,800 489 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:44,760 We talked about Don't Give Up being a duet, and he was hoping 490 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:50,640 to find um...somebody who could sing a country song. 491 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,720 I'd seen these extraordinary black and white pictures 492 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,280 of the American depression by Dorothea Lange 493 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,960 and they were haunting, so that was sort of the trigger point, 494 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,560 but then there was quite a lot of unemployment going on 495 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,640 and so I thought I would try and roll that in. 496 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,160 And in a way, the Don't Give Up message, 497 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:15,280 felt like a sort of an emotional focal point for the lyric. 498 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:21,080 And originally, because the American Depression sort of starting point, 499 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,640 I'd actually thought of Dolly Parton, who I'm a big fan of. 500 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,280 And he wanted to try and get Dolly Parton which I thought was inspired. 501 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,480 And she wasn't interested. 502 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,960 And I believe that when they called Dolly's manager, 503 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,760 I don't think that any of them knew who Peter Gabriel was. 504 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,000 It's interesting that he did write it with Dolly Parton in mind 505 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:46,080 because I can't imagine that voice in that setting. 506 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:50,440 From the point at which he mentioned Dolly Parton he also mentioned Kate. 507 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,920 When Kate Bush walked in, it was a completely different energy. 508 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,320 Again, what was a piece in development 509 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:03,280 turned into, you know, such a complete song almost instantaneously. 510 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,560 So something that we'd just been working on and working on 511 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,360 and working on for months 512 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:15,720 and not really getting to any kind of finality, instantly changed. 513 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,200 Course we were all happy to be in her presence, you know, 514 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,560 she was royalty pretty much. 515 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,080 She was literally standing right beside me here. 516 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,280 We were all working on headphones. 517 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,080 We had the speakers turned down so we were working on headphones 518 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,720 and you could just hear the emotion just dripping out of her performance 519 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,160 and literally every hair on my body was just standing up. 520 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:41,360 521 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:51,760 522 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:56,280 It needs to be really underplayed 523 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,040 and um...intimate. 524 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:05,640 Don't Give Up is actually a really nice way to come out of Red Rain 525 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:10,560 and Sledgehammer into something very soothing, and very pointed 526 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,840 and it's interesting that he gives that key line to Kate Bush. 527 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:16,680 He doesn't sing it himself. 528 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,760 He gives it to this beautiful female voice that has a lover's quality, 529 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:23,600 maternal quality. 530 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:28,400 I think, and it's my impression again, that it's a homage 531 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,800 to these songs, these duets that used to happen 532 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,080 in the world of rhythm and blues, 533 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,880 when Otis Redding sang with Aretha Franklin. 534 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,800 He was paying a tribute, you know, with respect 535 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:42,720 to the music that he loved. 536 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,600 537 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,960 538 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,520 She was essentially brought in as an actor really, 539 00:32:54,520 --> 00:33:00,360 to play a role and to represent that part of the song... 540 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,560 and um... 541 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,840 I can't imagine it being any better than it is. 542 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,080 She was like an angel and did it fantastically. 543 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:12,600 544 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:17,680 545 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,920 546 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:25,840 547 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:31,800 So this is the wonderful Richard Tee on piano 548 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:36,400 which is much more of a soul gospel piano 549 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,560 which he does really well. 550 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:41,120 And then Peter... 551 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,080 Where is Peter? 552 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:49,520 553 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,760 554 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:54,440 Falsetto coming up. 555 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,960 556 00:33:57,960 --> 00:33:59,520 Beautiful, eh? 557 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,680 558 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,200 559 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:11,400 560 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,480 561 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,240 There's a big difference on the record in the sound 562 00:34:18,240 --> 00:34:22,120 in the second half of the piece and I looked around the studio 563 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,600 for some dampening material, some foam rubber or something 564 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:29,520 and my eyes fell on my bass case full of diapers. 565 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:34,120 Again, my two-month-old daughter was with me 566 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:38,160 and somehow I thought there might not be diapers in England, 567 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,560 I don't know what I was thinking, 568 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,920 but I had packed everything full of diapers, every free space. 569 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,160 So I put a diaper under the bass strings which dampened 570 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:48,880 the heck out of them 571 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:53,240 and later, Peter and Dan called that the Super Wonder Nappy Bass sound. 572 00:34:53,240 --> 00:34:58,200 573 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,400 574 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,480 575 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,200 576 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:11,560 577 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:17,760 I am obsessive about getting the right um...feel, 578 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:19,640 the right performance. 579 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,840 And Tony's absolutely brilliant with, you know, 580 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,880 one of the most amazing musicians I've ever worked with. 581 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,840 But occasionally, he'll do something that doesn't feel... 582 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,880 doesn't fit the picture and I've got something else in my head. 583 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:39,560 I was working at a studio called the Wool Hall in Beckington near Bath 584 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,800 and I was over there for quite some time working on this record 585 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,480 and also concurrently, I was just getting ready to start 586 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:51,920 a new record with Joni Mitchell, who was my wife at the time. 587 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:57,480 There was quite a vital music scene around Bath 588 00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,600 and the surrounding area in Somerset there. 589 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,960 There were a lot of groups doing work. Tears for Fears were up there. 590 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:08,160 You know, Peter Hamill was a guy who was working nearby. 591 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,880 And so there was a lot of studio-hopping that went on. 592 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,560 You know, within a half hour drive people would just drop in 593 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:17,440 to someone else's session 594 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:22,240 and then there was a number of different groups that were working on different things. 595 00:36:22,240 --> 00:36:25,800 And so, Joni and I just became a part of that little scene there 596 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,080 and when Peter called me, which... 597 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:34,640 I think it just turned out that he had some things that were unfinished 598 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:40,760 and he probably found out from one of the circuit of people there 599 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:42,880 that I was in town. 600 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:48,640 Some of the ideas for Mercy Street came relatively easily. 601 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:53,600 I mean, with Mercy Street, I found by chance these wonderful books 602 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,320 of a poet called Anne Sexton, 603 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:57,960 and she became the focus. 604 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,840 I am a big fan of Anne Sexton's poetry, 605 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,360 and was since I was 14, 15 years old. 606 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:10,520 And so when I listened to the song I knew what he had written it about 607 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,120 and what the centre of the song was about 608 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,200 and it was just incredibly moving to me. 609 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,000 610 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:23,640 611 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,640 612 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:31,760 613 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:36,600 614 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,640 The first thing that I did was... 615 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:40,480 STRUMS GUITAR 616 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:50,280 And then the other part was a fretless bass part but using tenths. 617 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:04,720 You know, a lot of these songs changed, 618 00:38:04,720 --> 00:38:06,800 like Mercy Street 619 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,400 became the song it became by an accident. 620 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,560 It actually was originally a song called Furo, 621 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,680 that Peter had recorded down in Brazil a couple of years beforehand. 622 00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:16,880 He'd recorded all the percussion elements. 623 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:21,000 In my percussion research, you know, 624 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,040 the most interesting things were coming out of Africa and Brazil. 625 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:29,320 So I went down to Brazil and um... 626 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,320 wanted to record with some percussionists there. 627 00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,720 One day we were working on one song 628 00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:37,560 and I just had the vari-speed of the machine engaged 629 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,800 so the machine was actually running at its slowest potential speed. 630 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:42,880 And the next song on the reel was Furo. 631 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,520 It started to play, and Dan and Peter and I looked at one another 632 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:48,640 and immediately went, "What is that sound?" 633 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,800 because it was running at 10% slower than it should be running. 634 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:53,760 And there was something about the percussion 635 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:55,680 and the graininess of the percussion. 636 00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,040 We slowed down guitars, and I think we slowed down cymbals as well. 637 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:02,280 Cos again, that's thinking... 638 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:06,080 giving them extra weight and power. 639 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,960 640 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:10,840 641 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:15,840 642 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:20,840 643 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,480 We didn't use headphones for Peter's singing. 644 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:27,320 He had a little blaster at his piano. 645 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,160 I don't like headphones. 646 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,840 They're like condoms for the ears in a way, you know. 647 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,640 You don't feel you're really connected 648 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:36,560 and the extraordinary thing is, 649 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,080 is that you can get exactly the same musical information 650 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,240 and sing really out of tune with headphones 651 00:39:43,240 --> 00:39:47,840 and be very precise as soon as you are singing to the speakers. 652 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,040 His monitor was really this little blaster 653 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:55,200 and that's all he ever used and we just found a sweet spot, 654 00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:57,840 clearly the blasters at the back of the mic 655 00:39:57,840 --> 00:39:59,600 so there was some separation 656 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:03,080 and I tried to keep Peter as close to the mike as possible. 657 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,760 So the vocals are really important in this 658 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,360 and I don't do a lot of vocal harmony work 659 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,480 but here, it felt really important. 660 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:20,240 It was sort of this sensual dream-like environment 661 00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:22,640 for Anne Sexton's world. 662 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:26,640 So in the verse, one of the ideas to try and build the mystery 663 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:28,680 was to put a shadow vocal in, 664 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:35,200 so an octave below the main vocal there's this low voice. 665 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:36,640 Should we solo that? 666 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:41,720 667 00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:44,560 And with the lead voice as well? 668 00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,080 669 00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,880 670 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:53,720 671 00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:56,240 The one part that we couldn't execute at the time 672 00:40:56,240 --> 00:41:00,400 was the lowest voice, the low octave voice cos that's just in a part 673 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:04,480 of Peter's range that is beautiful sounding but once he's up and about 674 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:08,040 during the day and talking, that part usually kind of disappears. 675 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:11,040 I had trouble doing that low voice. 676 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,920 And apparently um... 677 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,960 Well, I do remember that in the morning, 678 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,160 you have morning voice, you know. 679 00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:22,520 I think a lot of people are familiar with a pre-coffee voice. 680 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:27,120 So there we were discussing how to go about executing 681 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:31,480 that low harmony performance and I just suggested that perhaps 682 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,520 he would spend the night at the studio and I would prep the studio 683 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:36,840 so that he'd come in first thing the next morning 684 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,520 and without talking to anybody just put on the headphones and just start singing. 685 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:43,200 We started at seven o'clock in the morning 686 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:47,440 in order to get this voice before it had risen up to its normal level. 687 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,520 And within an hour, we had a low harmony part on the track 688 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,840 and that kind of helps pin the rest of the vocal. 689 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:58,040 It kind of gives you the base layer from which all the other voices, you know, elevate. 690 00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:02,400 It's actually an effect that I liked a lot. 691 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:07,280 692 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:11,320 693 00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:15,840 694 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:17,320 I've been very lucky musically. 695 00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,320 I never have any trouble generating new ideas 696 00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:25,160 but lyrically, getting something that I think is OK 697 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:29,880 and as I get older, I think I get more critical, that is hard work. 698 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:34,320 He would not want to finish working on the lyrics 699 00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:38,360 and Dan understandably would want him to finish working on the lyrics. 700 00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:42,400 I'm a master of distraction when I have a deadline. 701 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:47,360 Peter would take a lot of phone calls when it got to, you know, an intense period of recording 702 00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,520 where he really needed to deliver. 703 00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:54,480 He was a master at finding moments to delay. 704 00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:58,480 I think I smashed a telephone and threw it in the bushes a few times 705 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:02,080 because I didn't allow telephones on the session. 706 00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:06,480 When Peter'd been on the phone for a while and Danny eventually decided we needed to get back to work, 707 00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:09,520 so he took the phone out of Peter's hand and smashed it to pieces 708 00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:11,920 on the console without saying a word. 709 00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:17,800 Just smashed it to bits and carried right on as if nothing had happened! 710 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:23,080 At a time when the lyrics were going a little slow 711 00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:27,240 and I said to Peter, "Why don't you just go in that cow barn of yours 712 00:43:27,240 --> 00:43:29,560 "and strike up the PA and get on with some lyrics?" 713 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,680 So he went in and there were these huge spikes laying down there 714 00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:36,240 by the sliding door, one of those industrial sliding doors. 715 00:43:36,240 --> 00:43:39,000 I took the spikes and I nailed in him the studio. 716 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:40,960 Peter had the PA turned up quite loud 717 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,440 and he was playing the track and so Dan took up the six inch nail 718 00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:48,040 with the hammer, and in time with the music, hammered the door shut. 719 00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:52,520 Cos he was so frustrated at the speed or lack of speed. 720 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:56,920 Um, there was one lyric I just couldn't... 721 00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,520 get satisfied with anything I was generating. 722 00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,280 Peter didn't hear him while he was doing that. 723 00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:06,120 So lunch was called. Dan and I went up for lunch 724 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:09,080 and I remember saying to Dan, "Do you think we should let Peter..." 725 00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:10,400 He goes "No, he'll be fine." 726 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:16,160 Peter is not a violent or aggressive man in any way shape or form. 727 00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,720 And he managed to take the door frame right out... 728 00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:24,160 ..to open the door so he could get out of the room! 729 00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:28,040 Which was quite a feat, it was a big solid door, 730 00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:31,400 double layers of cinderblocks, concrete. 731 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,240 It was quite impressive! 732 00:44:34,240 --> 00:44:39,040 And at the end of lunch, Peter says to Dan, "Can we have a word outside?" 733 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,560 So they went outside and they exchanged a few words. 734 00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:43,800 And then we went back to work and that was it. 735 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,760 I almost got fired and not many lyrics were written, 736 00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:53,680 but I think he got the idea that, you know, we weren't there... 737 00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:56,640 we weren't about to, you know, wait around for him. 738 00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:59,240 I just said, "Let's get the job done here, 739 00:44:59,240 --> 00:45:02,520 "Let's hit it with the sledgehammer." 740 00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,520 It was really late in the process, it was probably October, November, 741 00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:09,520 and then Peter was, like, "Well, we only had eight songs." 742 00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:12,400 There was another song that didn't get finished. 743 00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,080 And so we realised that we needed to come up with another song. 744 00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:18,000 And then Peter came out and said, "Well, let's use Excellent Birds." 745 00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:22,160 It was a last minute track coming from an alternative direction, 746 00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:28,000 but I thought it could be a nice... a nice inclusion. 747 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:34,920 We came together in the studio, and that was here in my studio, 748 00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:39,240 and wrote this together, more or less trading lines I think. 749 00:45:39,240 --> 00:45:41,440 I said, "I'm doing a show about natural history" 750 00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:44,120 He said, "What about birds? Let's do something about birds." 751 00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:50,760 We had 48 hours before the deadline to write the song, 752 00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:54,760 including the lyric, record it, do the video 753 00:45:54,760 --> 00:46:00,840 and there's a point... on the second night 754 00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,240 where I'm trying to sing the vocal 755 00:46:03,240 --> 00:46:08,200 and I'm on a stool and I just stopped. 756 00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:11,240 And then after a while there was this... 757 00:46:11,240 --> 00:46:15,480 while the track is playing, snoring coming 758 00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:17,920 and there's no glass in the studio 759 00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,960 but they stopped eventually and peered round 760 00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:27,840 and I'd just fallen asleep mid-take, trying to do my vocal. 761 00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:33,400 And we looked a little weather-beaten the following day when we did the video. 762 00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:39,920 763 00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:42,200 764 00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,040 765 00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:46,640 766 00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:50,520 767 00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:52,840 768 00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:54,560 769 00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,840 Peter reached out to Lori and asked if he could use the track 770 00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:01,120 and she obviously gave her permission 771 00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:03,360 and that's when we started actually changing it 772 00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:07,600 and trying to shape it so that it would actually fit in with the rest of the songs on the record. 773 00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:09,280 774 00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:11,160 775 00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:13,280 776 00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,480 777 00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:25,600 That's another thing that I really admire about Peter's music. 778 00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,200 Um, it's forward looking. 779 00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:32,640 And the lyrics are forward and open 780 00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:36,400 and music is... 781 00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:40,960 ..so much often about regret. 782 00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:44,520 I mean, if you didn't... You wouldn't have much music if you, 783 00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:48,320 you know, didn't have, you know... lots of regrets. 784 00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:52,720 I mean, I think Willie Nelson was the one who said, you know, 785 00:47:52,720 --> 00:47:55,080 "90% of us end up with the wrong person 786 00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:57,720 "and that's what makes the jukebox spin." 787 00:47:57,720 --> 00:48:00,560 I don't think it was on the original vinyl version. 788 00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:02,760 We didn't have enough space 789 00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:07,960 cos you sort of forget about those days where 22 or 24 minutes 790 00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:10,800 was the maximum you could pack onto a disc 791 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:15,880 if you wanted to have the bass with any power to it. 792 00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:21,320 Cos the bigger bass you have, the deeper the grooves go 793 00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:24,160 and so you need to push them up the record 794 00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:30,120 cos the circle is getting smaller and smaller, if you imagine, with the needles, 795 00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:36,960 so it's harder and harder to get any bass as you arrive at the end. 796 00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:41,480 Vinyl actually is still my preferred way of listening to music 797 00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:43,000 because of the warmth, 798 00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:46,560 because of the physical interaction you have with the disc 799 00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:48,760 and even just the mere art of flipping it over, 800 00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:51,040 you're engaged with it. 801 00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:54,600 On CD, when it was recently reissued a few years ago, 802 00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,800 he put In Your Eyes at the back of the CD, 803 00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:02,200 where, apparently, he had originally intended it to go. 804 00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:06,720 But because of the way vinyl was, they made the other choice. 805 00:49:06,720 --> 00:49:09,400 It's one of the rare incidents where the CD is an improvement, 806 00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,000 at least in the running order, 807 00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:16,120 because on the original album, it ended with We Do What We're Told. 808 00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:20,600 And I think by putting it at the end of the CD 809 00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:25,000 he actually made the album more complete 810 00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:30,760 and gave it that sense of optimism, that there is a future, 811 00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:33,960 that we don't have to just do what we're told, 812 00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:37,320 and sometimes you can find your greater strength in the person next to you. 813 00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:40,960 I still don't like this title business 814 00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:46,960 and maybe a way round it is just to have one or two letters, 815 00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:49,720 because then it becomes like a piece of graphic. 816 00:49:49,720 --> 00:49:54,640 So, when I was thinking about So 817 00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:58,120 you know, I thought, "OK, well, we'll just make it two letters 818 00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:01,200 "and we'll choose letters that look quite nice in themselves." 819 00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:05,200 He had an idea about having a trilogy of sorts 820 00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:08,840 with just a two letter title, So being one of them, Us. 821 00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:13,200 But maybe it was, like, a backlash of the complexity 822 00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,320 of the making of this record that he wanted a nice, simple title. 823 00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:19,280 The less letters you have, the bigger you can make them. 824 00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:23,280 Ads, or you're out in the market place, you've got bigger billing 825 00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:26,680 than anyone else cos you've only got two letters. 826 00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:30,000 So, um... this was something that I liked 827 00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:31,880 and I've kept on doing ever since. 828 00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:33,640 829 00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:41,640 830 00:50:42,720 --> 00:50:47,200 831 00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:50,560 I was fascinated in Africa that you could have a love song 832 00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:56,560 that was a religious song and a romantic love song at the same time. 833 00:50:56,560 --> 00:51:02,560 So I was trying to see if I could get that ambiguity in this lyric. 834 00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:06,400 For the track In Your Eyes, Peter says to me, 835 00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:09,320 "OK, we're going to do that, just play what you want to play." 836 00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:12,600 And in my mind I said, "What does that mean? 837 00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:14,320 "I don't know what... 838 00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:17,040 "I mean, I'm just going to play the track but what does that mean, 839 00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:19,760 'Play what you want to play' cos I'd never been used to that?" 840 00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:22,680 I had always been asked to play this or play like someone else. 841 00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:26,520 I was facing him with my drum kit. 842 00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:30,280 He was just standing in front of me, put the headphones on. 843 00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:33,200 I had the headphones, asked to have the track in the headphones 844 00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:36,960 and start dancing like an African but just so you know, 845 00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:41,280 Peter, the way he was at the time, very English, great face, 846 00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:45,480 great smile, trying to dance like African guys. 847 00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:50,720 I thought, "OK, if that guy, very English guy, go for it!" 848 00:51:50,720 --> 00:51:52,280 And that was the cue for me. 849 00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:55,960 I just, like, let it go, I just played like "OK." 850 00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:58,040 Anything. And it worked. 851 00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:01,880 And so once again, this project was very big for me musically 852 00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,520 cos I think he opened up my mind. 853 00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:06,520 There's a talking drum here. 854 00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:09,280 FAST DRUM BEATS 855 00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:26,640 You can't miss with this, everything you put up sounds great. 856 00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:37,840 We had...96, I think, Kevin would be able to confirm this, 857 00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:44,880 I think 96 different versions of In Your Eyes all on multi-track. 858 00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:49,120 So there were hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of different takes 859 00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:54,720 to choose from which were all organized by a gigantic wall chart 860 00:52:54,720 --> 00:52:59,920 which we eventually chopped together bar by bar out of two inch tape. 861 00:52:59,920 --> 00:53:03,920 With Danny and Peter and everybody listening just going, 862 00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:08,000 "OK, bar 1, take 37, we like that. 863 00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:10,800 "We'll take that one." So, that's where that one would go. 864 00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:14,560 And we literally assembled that song 865 00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:18,320 with 3, 6, 12 inch pieces of 2 inch tape, 866 00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:20,280 to actually create the rhythm track. 867 00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,400 We could have worked on that song for probably another couple of months 868 00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:26,280 and Youssou's part had gone on before Peter had done his lyric 869 00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:28,840 so Peter had to weave his performance around Youssou's, 870 00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:32,040 which, you know, was a wonderful thing and a great tapestry 871 00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:36,400 to sing against but it still was a complicated arrangement. 872 00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:38,840 Just the way that he delivered on that 873 00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:44,040 was so radically different from anything I think we were expecting. 874 00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:47,000 I think there's a lot of joy in the track for me 875 00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:53,440 and when Youssou's voice sort of milks the last bit of the song, 876 00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:57,760 you know, it's, it's like an ecstatic moment for me. 877 00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:03,720 In Your Eyes became an absolute anthem live, 878 00:54:03,720 --> 00:54:09,040 I mean, it was just... The way in which that song was on the record, 879 00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:12,680 became a whole other world live. 880 00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:20,880 881 00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:25,640 882 00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:30,880 883 00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:37,240 884 00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:41,800 885 00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:48,040 886 00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:51,880 It did go through a number of changes. 887 00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:54,600 The thing that was consistent was the "da-da-da-da-da", 888 00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:57,440 the sort of arpeggiated feature of the chorus. 889 00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:00,120 And there was an African groove underlying it. 890 00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:11,080 When we used to tour with Youssou there was always a fantastic moment 891 00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:14,880 you know, like the sun coming out so... 892 00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:17,880 it was nice to sort of tell a story, paint a picture 893 00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:22,960 and then just have this sort of open ecstasy. 894 00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:29,440 895 00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:33,040 896 00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:35,840 897 00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:42,160 898 00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:45,240 It was really nice to see the energies of the two of them, 899 00:55:45,240 --> 00:55:46,960 how they looked at each other. 900 00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:50,120 And I could feel that something magic was happening. 901 00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:03,280 I listen to it on these tracks now and I know that these tracks 902 00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:07,320 were built by a young man who did nothing else with his life for a year. 903 00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:10,240 And um... 904 00:56:10,240 --> 00:56:13,240 and I can imagine what it's like to live the life of a monk now! 905 00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:19,640 A lot of things came together, I think, that opened it up 906 00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:22,760 to a much broader audience than I would normally get to. 907 00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:28,800 It was the moment the perfect storm hit and the man and the public 908 00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:33,680 and the record and the tour and everything, you know, came together. 909 00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:36,600 I surrounded myself with wonderful people, 910 00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:40,880 but in the end, I think it's, it's songs that speak. 911 00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:47,240 It so changed the landscape of recording for everybody, you know. 912 00:56:47,240 --> 00:56:49,400 I worked with a lot of guys 913 00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:52,040 and from that point on, it set the standard. 914 00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:57,560 It was such a well-produced album of very well-crafted songs, 915 00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:01,480 of incredible singing and phenomenal lyrics. 916 00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:04,840 It was the quintessential album. 917 00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:07,720 The right moment with the right people in the right place 918 00:57:07,720 --> 00:57:09,960 with the right things to do. 919 00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:13,760 I became fixated on it, let's say, you know, 920 00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:17,520 and to this day, it sounds like it could have been done yesterday. 921 00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:20,280 He made a classic album 922 00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:24,880 simply by making sure he made the best record he could 923 00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:27,920 at the moment and that's what classic albums are. 924 00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:30,640 The best album you could make at that moment 925 00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:37,200 and with the notion that you want it to live longer than you do. 926 00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:40,160 And he succeeded. 927 00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:42,800 928 00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:48,480 929 00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:53,680 930 00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:59,080 931 00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:04,160 932 00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:09,280 933 00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:14,480 934 00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:19,480 935 00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:26,600 Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd